BILmanager: !d Welcome All---I am the Lounge Assistant on Duty for today's lesson. We will need 3 players every 2 boards. The hands ... BILmanager: are random. If you would like to play please send me a pvt message !d ->jordana: if you wish to play just chat to BILmanager chandaa: hi all paulg: hi kyno40: hi all paulg: hi paulg: so I need three players to start this :) ... so let BILmanager know if you'd like to play BILmanager: C'mon guys we are here to play dont' some of you want to? paulg: it's all very friendly ... paulg: .... and I also help privately BILmanager: please sit chandaa kyno and sally paulg: welcome everyone paulg: so if you have any questions then don't hesitate to ask .... paulg: ... possibly the most exciting contract we've ever had here! Joly 3: gl p BILmanager: => Club: !d Beg/Int Lounge Members- paulg's session has just begun---- All Members Welcome !d Joly 3: vnt p sallyally: nto paulg: so this was a very boring first hand .... sceptic: sigh played clubs totally wrong Joly 3: :-)) paulg: the bidding by everyone was fine .. paulg: and the play of the clubs was not a problem either ... kyno40: the 18 pointa was paulg: although I'd have put the !cJ up on the first round sceptic: I misclicked :) jordana: why not 1 nt ? ->jordana: 19pts - 1NT=15-17 1Valeria->Kibitzers: Hi all paulg: :) paulg: hi valeria kyno40: sorry 19 paulg: in fact the hand was totally without interest until the second spade was led ... chandaa: wasnt the !s play incorrect ? paulg: and Wayne had to guess who had the !sA ->chandaa: yes paulg: it looks like a pure 50-50 decision ... paulg: but there are two pointers to the correct play ... paulg: firstly restricted choice .... which perhaps I'll cover next week ... paulg: that says that with !sQJ sally could have played either ... paulg: and so is less likely to have any particular one .... a complex topic ... paulg: easier is consider Klaus's bid .... kyno40: opening 2 NT ? paulg: or lack of one ... paulg: he has already shown !cAQ !hQ ... sceptic: bye paulg: and with the !sA he may well have bid in 4th seat paulg: so it is more likely than sally has the !sA ... so finessing is better BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d I need 1 more volunteer for the next round - We'll change at Board 3 !d paulg: as regards to opening 2NT, this shows 21-22 in SAYC so a big stretch with 19pts lynnsurry2: sure sallyally: glp BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d Players for Boards 3 and 4 are: chandaa DonBel jdelang Be ready to sit after the hand discussion !d sallyally: wdp kyno40: ty paulg: so the defence missed an opportunity to break the contract ... but we'll discuss the bidding first paulg: firstly, is klaus's 2!h bid forcing? ... votes DonBel: yes robertn: y chandaa: yes sceptic: no jdelang: no paulg: i've just checked my SAYC booklet and it's not covered :) kyno40: no paulg: so there is no definitive answer ... DonBel: says "RONF" over weak 2 on my SAYC card paulg: but many people play RONF paulg: which means that Raise is the Only Non-Forcing bid paulg: which I think is a sensible approach paulg: on this hand I wouldn't care ... I'd always bid 2!h whatever it means paulg: wayne made a good double and sally's raise is very sensible - support partner when you can paulg: i'd have certainly bid with anja's hand .... only 7 points but a double fit with partner paulg: also a good distribution ... wayne's double and opps bidding suggest he is short in hearts ... paulg: and we have a diamond singleton ... paulg: oops, i can't count - only 6 points ... but I'd probably risk 4!s :) sceptic: hi sorry fuses went paulg: perhaps wayne's reputation for light bidding went against him here ! sceptic: who bids light? kyno40: lol paulg: the defence was informative ... paulg: anja's first card - !c4 - is what many would play .... paulg: but it's hard to see when it costs to really encourage with the !c10 paulg: then wayne will continue clubs to the !cA and then the spade switch can be made paulg: now the contract should go down 1 paulg: however ... it should have done down 1 anyway paulg: although it appears than anja ruff on the second diamond costs a trick ... paulg: ... it was absolutely necessary to break the contract ... paulg: and it would have done if Wayne had not miscounted the diamonds and inadvertently set them up for discards! sceptic: yes I cant belive I cant count 1 suit like that paulg: so anja's first discard could have been clearer, but the subsequent ruff was excellent play paulg: klaus took advantage of the defensive slips with sound play paulg: so thanks to the three of you ... BILmanager: chandaa DonBel jdelang Be ready to sit kyno40: ty sallyally: thx paul & wayne Joly 3: thnx all sceptic: hi all DonBel: SAYC, yes? paulg: yes BILmanager: !d I need 1 volunteer for the next round - We'll change at Board 5 !d ->jdelang: hi, was your first double penalty or takeout? jdelang: stolen ->jdelang: thanks DonBel: typ sceptic: geezus, I have lost the plot today BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d Players for Boards 5 and 6 are: papi daso766 grap !D ->sceptic: all four of you are smoking something! sceptic: not me, I just lost the plot, unless this columbian coffee is laced the saint (Lobby): hmmmmmmmmm! geofspa: good for you ... I saw to about board 7 or 8 1st half and you were doing well ... there was one board I thought you were ... geofspa: particularly mean on ->geofspa: which? geofspa: opps had an easy 6!d ... they stopped in 5 after you and your bro bid 2!s and 3!s paulg: as we sometimes see, another auction escalates out of control ->geofspa: we bid a lot :) DonBel: yes, sp paulg: but before we get to the auction just one small point on the defence sceptic: lol npp my fault i think paulg: after ash's lead, which was a reasonable choice ... paulg: leading the !hJ only sets up tricks for declarer so it's better to switch paulg: partner should have some diamonds so a low diamond, suggesting a high honour, is best paulg: then johannes can put the !dJ in paulg: and make life really difficult for Don paulg: but the bidding is a far more fruitful area for comment :) chandaa: don had shown 10 black cards, so she'd have a sngltn in one of the red suits paulg: Don's 1!s is impeccable paulg: yes, and if that singleton is hearts then the !hQ is established for a diamond discard paulg: how many people would NOT bid 1NT with wayne's hand? paulg: good paulg: 1NT is impeccable too ... paulg: now johannes has a bit of a problem - strong hand but no good bid ... paulg: typically a double here shows a takeout of 1!s ... paulg: ... but it can also be done with a strong balanced hand ... paulg: ... otherwise the opposition will steal your contract paulg: ... note that it is a DANGEROUS bid .... paulg: ... as your partner, who may have short spades, has passed so will not be very strong paulg: ... but I think double is the best bid here paulg: Don's rebid is an interesting question - who would bid 2!c and who 2!s? kyno40: 2s grap: 2s steinar: 2!s jdelang: rebid !s tasos: 2!c sallyally: s picsou1: 2!s chandaa: 2!c DonBel: without the X i bid 2!S sceptic: 2!S paulg: ... and why change because of the double? kyno40: specially with the dbl s DonBel: opps bid !H and !D, so we may have good club fit. daso766: ic paulg: actually that is only true later in the auction ... they may have a good club fit now :) .... paulg: but it made the rest of the auction interesting DonBel: oh, yes kyno40: but p shows only 6 9 points paulg: my brother and I have a rule about bidding 6-4s ... paulg: we rebid the suit with most points paulg: so here we would rebid 2!s paulg: the reason is not to introduce a weak 4-card suit paulg: it copes with hands like this better (luckily) paulg: anyhow, 2!c proved better for the story .... paulg: so Ash has an easy 2!d bid ... DonBel: happy to help :-) paulg: and now johannes should pass .... paulg: it is very unlikely that you have game and partner would always prefer hearts to diamonds paulg: also 2!h shows a GOOD heart suit .... paulg: which is why Ash raised ... rightly on the auction paulg: i was originally going to describe Johannes double as "italian" ... paulg: it shows points but not necessarily good support everywhere .... which is how the great Italians bid ... paulg: but it also means that you have to pass in situations like this paulg: at least you have !dAJ ... and two other aces paulg: ... unlikely to be a disaster grap: and shoe to ypur p that you don't have 5 major swuit too?? paulg: yes kyno40: or 4 paulg: Ash has probably denied four hearts with 2!d paulg: wayne's bid of 4!c is creative .... he has no values, only 3 trumps, and defensive tricks in the opps suit :) paulg: so probably should pass .... hali11: not enought points... paulg: and Don's final 4!s suggests that perhaps he'd prefer to have rebid 2!s DonBel: typ kyno40: i am sure wyn took his p. 2c bid as 5clubs hali11: johan -1nt? paulg->Kibitzers: so would you bid with wayne's hand - responses to kibs only please ->hali11: yes hali11->Kibitzers: 1nt tasos->Kibitzers: I like the pass steinar->Kibitzers: pass grap: 1nt BILmanager: yes but i go set--a lot--lol Sinan->Kibitzers: 1nt tasos->Kibitzers: p overcalled so I would be reluctant to bid 1NT with my shape, also I can always bid !c later if opps compete esp1->Kibitzers: this depends on what agreements you have for an overcall. I would never pass, but it was smart now :))) grap: sure i never pass too paulg->Kibitzers: And would you overcalled 1!s? papi: noooooooooooooo tasos->Kibitzers: all the time :) esp1->Kibitzers: no geofspa->Kibitzers: never overcall here grap: no paulg: so the kibs and I have been discussing the bidding ... paulg: most would not overcall 1!s .... paulg: ... unless playing light overcalls BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d papi daso756 grap Be ready to sit after this hand discussion !d paulg: however I'm sympathetic ... paulg: ... difficult not to bid 5-card spade suits :) sceptic: I thought overcall 1!S with 8 or more points paulg: yes, but this is a poor suit in a defensive hand ... DonBel: usually 11 for sound overcall, but could not resist here paulg: it's unclear that you want a spade suit lead ... jdelang: i thought don had more points paulg: .... as almost anything partner leads is good grap: at least 10 paulg: the vote was split on whether wayne should respond .... paulg: ... many supported pass, some wanted 1NT paulg: this is a difficult hand ... and a lot depends on your overcalling style ... paulg: i dislike 1NT without a diamond stop ... but it does show some values paulg: 2!s is also possible ... you do have two minor honours ... paulg: but, as you are a passed hand, I prefer 2!c ... which no-one has mentioned esp1: 2C? sceptic: pass or 2!C was my thoughts pass won paulg: this must show spade tolerance ... because you are a passed hand paulg: ... and would not have the strength to bid freely at the 2-level without tolerance sceptic: and cos I thought I would mislead my p as he would expect more from me paulg: as you are a passed hand it's hard to mislead too much with a good 6-card suit and tolerance DonBel: u already passed, so 2!C not forcing paulg: ... and 8 points sceptic: no but he could take it as 10 may be 11 paulg: also partner will know that you do not have genuine spade support paulg: true, but it's best to keep flexible after the overcall .... if all bids show 10-11 you will often find it difficult to ... paulg: bid paulg: so good !c suit, working values, tolerance ... all make this a good hand given the pass chandaa: i have to leave, thanks all, paul :-) sceptic: eastenders? paulg: johannes clearly expected more from Don's overcalll ... but I'd have still balanced with 1NT paulg: this must show a hand too strong for a 1NT opener, so gets the values across paulg: Ash would probably escape to hearts and a reasonable contract .... Iunatic: what about X? paulg: ash complained he had a weak hand ... but he could easily have ended up playing it :) ->Iunatic: prefer 1NT with strong balanced hand ->Iunatic: and only 2 clubs Iunatic: ty :) paulg: so thanks to Don and Johannes ... we'll move on BILmanager: !D papi daso766 grap please sit !D papi: transfer there ? if johannes rebid 1 NT? sceptic: hi all grap: hi all papi: hi daso766: Hi all paulg: good question! paulg: i play transfers there .... I'm not sure everyone does! Blanca17: what do you say to transfer to diam. i forgot :((( ->Blanca17: 2!s - transfer to unspecified weak minor ->papi: did you consider doubling 1!d? papi: no Blanca17: thks, both diam and cls? sceptic: typ ->Blanca17: yes, partner bids 3!c and you pass or correct to 3!d papi: no C support if pd bids C BILmanager: will there be time for Bds 7/8? I have 2 volunteers ->BILmanager: possibly - let's see how long this one takes Blanca17: thks :)) daso766: wd grap: wdp sceptic: ty paulg: well done paulg: so a 3NT rebid does not tend to show points, but a running suit as Wayne has here paulg: well bid sceptic: ty paulg: with !sKQTx I'd tend to lead the top card against this auction ... papi: k paulg: actually I'd normally lead the K from this holding on any auction ... papi: wd in suit contract paulg: but when there is likely to be a long running suit it is important not to give cheap tricks paulg: also in NT .... most holdings where you have two honours, gap, and then next honour ... paulg: unless you know that there is a 4-card holding with the opps paulg: would anyone have bid this hand differently? paulg: any italian masters there? steinar: i would consider a x in east paulg: most Europeans would consider a double with papi's hand paulg: ignoring the danger of a club response papi: :( paulg: in the UK, and North America, most people would pass ... paulg: however the UK is starting to change and become more flexible ... papi: also consider all 4 hands.... paulg: so if you are playing with a European ... note that he/she might bid with this papi: both opps biding... paulg: true, but the reason can be seen by swapping the south and west hands ... paulg: now you may play in 1!d rather than 1-2!s paulg: anyhow it's something a regular partnership should agree on - your standard for doubles paulg: all agreements are playable :) papi: lol paulg->Kibitzers: so after giving my rule for bidding 6-4s, grap has equal points! geofspa: what do you bid when points are = in 6-4 hand ... here i would risk another !h bid hali11->Kibitzers: grap-2!D? ->geofspa: i would bid 2!d due to the spade tolerance - keeping the bidding open sceptic: typ grap: glp paulg: so who wants to have their bids back? BILmanager: great they are ready paulg: interesting problem for grap .... my rule does not resolve this situation! grap: maybe i can said 3nt BILmanager: !d steinar geofspa tasos be ready to sit after the hand discussion !d grap: but i don't like my only club paulg: i don't there is much to choose between 2!d and 2!h ... paulg: both are okay ... paulg: i'd have bid 2!d because the auction is less likely to finish ... and I have useful values for pd in spades paulg: however 2!h does show 6 hearts janeherehi: what was wrong with 4 !H paulg: wayne's 3!c bid is game forcing ... so I was surprised to see the auction stop :) ->janeherehi: nothing! sceptic: as he never wanted 3nt I was cautious paulg: the problem is that 3NT may not play well on a misfit ... grap: thas why i prefer to say 3s paulg: but having made a game forcing bid you should not stop below game ... paulg: grap may have held a much more suitable hand sceptic: we never had points for game paulg: i'd have bid 3NT with grap's hand ... you have good diamonds hali11: 4!H grap: but I supuose he had 5 S with my only 2 he can us it for cutting the clubs paulg: .... and clubs are your partner's concern paulg: wayne, if you are concerned about values for game then you must make an invitational bid ... paulg: clearly 2NT is a problem with singleton diamond (!) ... sceptic: I was not sure what else to bid paulg: but the known 6-2 heart fit means that 3!h is ok paulg: on this hand grap will bid 4!h due to the spade fit ... paulg: and then you reach the optimum contract grap: yes i go to four h paulg: i know it seems strange to raise with only two hearts .... paulg: but this is an auction where partner has GUARANTEED six paulg: alternatively ... let's consider if I am bidding grap's hand and rebid 2!d paulg: .. as in 1!H-1!s-2!d ... paulg: now wayne can bid 2NT ... invitational hali11: 1!H 1!S 2!D 3!C 3!!H 4!H paulg: i can bid 3!h to show six ... and now a raise to 4!h gets us to the same place paulg: 1!h-1!s-2!d-2NT-3!h-4!h grap: ok have to go tks paul paulg: thx daso766: ty Paul for the excellent lessons paulg: so we'll try and play another couple of hands, thanks to papi, daso and grap BILmanager: !d steinar geofspa tasos please sit !d tasos: Hi all paulg: welcome everyone sceptic: hi all geofspa: Hi everyone ->sceptic: how many losers (i.e., losing trick count) ? sceptic: 5 ->sceptic: y ->sceptic: good bid geofspa: gl p ->sceptic: so count your tricks, consider your losers, and how you can get rid of them safely sceptic: spade loser on the club ->sceptic: wait ->sceptic: so where are your diamond losers going? sceptic: !d next or I lose my entries ->sceptic: well done ->sceptic: especially as dummy's trumps are high ->sceptic: note that club back is safest ... as steinerbid them sceptic: y Free: hi all sceptic: hi ->sceptic: hi tasos: wd geofspa: wd p ->Free: hi sceptic: ty] paulg: well played wayne steinar: wd paulg: actually that was almost text book play - well done sceptic: :), it was probably a misprint in the book lol paulg: and it was a good bid too janeherehi: steiner should lead out trumps perhaps? paulg: Steinar did well not to double - he knows that Wayne has bid this with poor trumps so will have values elsewhere paulg: as a couple have mentioned though, an initial lead of !hAKX will scupper the contract steinar: yes, i see it now, and should have "seen" it earlier paulg: perhaps leading a top trump "to have a look" is possible with this hand weak2s: then its down 3 ->weak2s: yep paulg: so, last hand for tonight ->geofspa: wayne is transferring geofspa: I was wondering ... but sys on after NT overcall is how I normally play paulg: actually I've just checked and SAYC does NOT use transfers after a 1NT overcall .... sceptic: gl geof geofspa: ty wayne paulg: however I recommend that you agree to use transfers! dwbva: would a takeout X by Geof as his first bid been suitable? janeherehi: should it be alerted? sceptic: is stayman on and transfers off (I never seem to get it right) ->dwbva: possible, but I prefer 1NT as it shows balanced 15-17 points with stops paulg: yes, 2!c is officially the only conventional response Blanca17: yes , it is very usuful :)) ->Blanca17: yes paulg: most tournament players would play transfers on after a 1NT overcall geofspa: ooooppppps ... q!h was good geofspa: I forgot paulg: generosity on both sides during the play there, but probably a fair ending! Blanca17: he is playing :)) paulg: so the auction here was without incident ... paulg: perhaps the only person with a real decision never bid at all - Tas! paulg: after a 1NT overcall ... all 2-level bids are weak ... paulg: ... so a 2!d call was possible .... paulg: ... however i think that pass is best as partner may reopen the bidding paulg: .... i think that Tas's hand is too weak for a double paulg: so well bid all around paulg: that's it for this evening ... so thanks to wayne and all our players tasos: I would have bid if p showed extras sceptic: thx paul paulg: next week I'll prepare a few hands on RESTRICTED CHOICE tasos: ty Paul and all kyno40: THANK YOU PAUL sceptic: thx to all p and opps geofspa: thank you paul DonBel: thx Paul and Wayne steinar: thx for lessons paulg: and we'll see if we can confuse more of the bridge world with this topic ->sceptic: np - provides more material! geofspa: Thanks Wayne ... what you doing this weekend ? ->BILmanager: mary, many thanks for your help! sceptic: why fancy a date? tasos: lol BILmanager: !D Thanks Paul and thanks Wayne for sharing your lesson with BIL members !D geofspa: we may visit if you are free sceptic: I am not coming out the closet in front of this lot tasos: lol geofspa: Or maybe Lyn will host an evening geofspa: Lol ... me either sceptic: I am working all over bank holiday geofspa: Ok another time paulg: bye all BILmanager: bye Paul ->sceptic: cu around geofspa (Lobby): thanks paul sceptic: :( I think I have sat off sceptic: c ya later paul