paulg: so Italy have done a little better than England this evening :) 1Valeria: lol a disaster sceptic: is that the rugby, I am depressed about the football paulg: although with Helle here it was clearly a fair result :) 1Valeria: :) paulg: we only play cricket in the UK now! BILmanager: => Club: !D!D paulg's session is starting momentarily--All Members Welcome. !D!D paulg: so this evening we're just going to watch wayne and valeria bid a few hands .... 1Valeria: ojoj paulg: they are playing/learning 2/1 .... paulg: but most of the hands are system independent paulg: they are not particularly difficult ... more about judgement ... paulg: and are NOT a bidding challenge :) paulg: if we get through the 6 hands then we'll have some random play thn->Kibitzers: Good Luck all BILmanager: => Club: !D!D paulg's session has just begun --All Members Welcome. !D!D paulg: although 2/1 has a slightly higher requirement for a two-level response .... this problem would be the same in SAYC a1swiz: i kno play but havent memorized alot of conventions paulg: good try wayne paulg: i defended well :) sceptic->Club: ty that was hard sceptic: :)) 1Valeria->Club: :( paulg: so what would 3!c by valeria have shown? 1Valeria: 10 11 sceptic: inv values and 6!c 1Valeria: very good !C paulg: ok, is that because 2/1 is always game forcing? 1Valeria: yes a1swiz: shows clbs and hrt sceptic: yes paulg: ok, in traditional SAYC you could bid 3!c here showing weak hand and long clubs paulg: in traditional 2/1 it is the same, weak hand, long clubs .... paulg: ... but I play the same as you ... more invitational JMcCrea3->Club: ive been told not to preemp with a 4crd major tho, is that always the case? paulg: i'm discussing the sequence 1!s-1NT-2!d-3!c ... paulg: i preempt with 4-card majors without too much worry ... JMcCrea3: ty paulg: although many people do play the rule mentioned by John a1swiz: with 3 clb bid wouldnt that tell p nmf? paulg: not nmf since 1NT has limited the hand a1swiz: i see a1swiz: but p wud think i have more paulg: nmf also really only applies at the 2-level a1swiz: maybe 3nt paulg: 3nt is not going to play very well here 1Valeria: ty paulg: unlucky ... sceptic->Club: nt v paulg: but it was only a 23-point game sceptic: should I downgrade my hand a bit paulg: btw you should not have claimed at this point ... if diamonds were 4-0 then you have another loser :) a1swiz: was repeat of 3d telling p no game paulg: that is perhaps the point ... sceptic: bad 12 paulg: if you open light ... then you either accept results like this will happen ... 1Valeria->Club: my opening is light paulg: or you are more conservative in the bidding paulg: my view is that you accept results like this and bid aggressively ... paulg: defence is far more difficult than declarer play ... paulg: so you will gain more than you lose ... paulg: on this hand you know that you have a double fit ... so clear to bid game a1swiz: even w/2 doubletons a1swiz: ? paulg->Kibitzers: once the auction has started 1!h-2!d they are committed to game negative: l 1Valeria: ty paulg: so you should really lead the !hJ here .... no-one ever covers the !h7 but some people cover the J paulg: even though you have no intention of running it 1Valeria: yes ok ty paulg: nicely played 1Valeria->Club: :) sceptic->Club: :) paulg: so the interesting question is whether you knew what you were doing with the 4!h bid? paulg: is it not a cuebid agreeing diamonds? 1Valeria: yes it was sceptic: oh :) 1Valeria: but he has !H fit paulg: but you might have two clubs and void spade? 1Valeria: and no cue !S paulg: or 1-1 in the blacks 1Valeria: no i made splinter in !C sceptic: splinter in clubs 4!D cue 4!h I took as to play paulg: but valeria does not know you have hearts ... so cannot be to play FleuretteD: ok sceptic: yes that is the bit I am learning about :) paulg: i think the 4!d bid sets the trump suit here juve: Hi paul.May opener make splinter? ty paulg: i believe a 4!h bid instead of 4!d would say that you have hearts ... and probably no spade control paulg: any hand may splinter ... to show a singleton and good support for the last bid suit paulg: the reason that 4!h shows hearts is that a 4!d bid would set the suit sceptic: y i c paulg: also, if wayne held hearts, diamonds and spade control, then would be able to cuebid spades paulg: getting back to the original suit is always a problem ... paulg: i was watching the US trials over the weekend .... and the team that came second had a similar auction .. paulg: the commentators thought they understood it .. but the pair said "it was murky" paulg: so even the best have problems .... paulg: ... but here it is easier as 4!d establishes the trump suit 1Valeria: ty paulg: no splinter? sceptic: I upgraded my hand a bit may be splinter should be best paulg: well done ... sceptic: wdp paulg: the first question was whether valeria should respond .... 1Valeria->Club: :) paulg: ... perhaps I should have swapped the minors around ... paulg: but I think it is clear to bid with such good majors paulg: then there is wayne's rebid .... paulg: i think his options are 4!h or 3!h .... or 3!d splinter paulg: i assume 3!d is the splinter here? 1Valeria: yes paulg: so 1!c-1!h-4!d would show void paulg: wayne has a six loser hand ... so not really strong enough for 4!h ... sceptic: 3!h I rule out as I did not want to risk pass out and game bonus vuln is worth the risk paulg: 3!h will only get passed out if partner is really weak ... paulg: give valeria ATxx Jxxx xx xxx and 4!h has not play paulg: the problem is not this hand ... paulg: valeria has lots of working values and will always bid game over 3!h ... paulg: the problem is when she has a stronger hand and makes a move over 4!h because she is expecting you to have more values sceptic: ok juve: valeria has a lot of values here? could y explain please? ty paulg: would 3!d splinter be game forcing? ->juve: she has a 5th heart and a singleton and an ace ... it could be worse :) 1Valeria: don't think but I'm not sure sceptic: not sure I would not have taken 3!D as splinter so we need to talk about that lol paulg: i agree that 3!d is a splinter ... and feel that it should not be game forcing ... but highly invitational paulg: so you may pass with !sJxx !hJxxx !dKJx !cxxx paulg: well, but 3!h rather than pass ;) paulg: bid 1Valeria: 3!D solve my losers !D 1Valeria: glp 1Valeria: sorry I have to 3!C as my 12 are ugly bzstvn: What was 2NT, Paul? ->bzstvn: 2nt was jacoby, showing 4+!h and game forcing paulg: so should you be in this slam? bzstvn: Is that hand strong enough for that? ->bzstvn: we shall discuss this :) hallway (Lobby): Hi Paul - we can't play cricket I confess - but rugby !!! now that is another story - lol sceptic: not so sure it is the vbest slam but I would think we should have looked a bit more ->hallway: it's a 2-test series! paulg: so the slam is JUST with the odds ... hallway (Lobby): lol 1Valeria: after 2NT probably yes but I should have bid 3!C paulg: and I agree with both of you ... paulg: this is a poor 12 count ... no aces, 4333 shape paulg: however wayne should do more over 4!h ... bzstvn: What would be 3!c instead of 2nt? paulg: i'd probably keycard blackwood and bid the slam ->bzstvn: 3!c is reverse bergen ... showing a limit raise in hearts paulg: so wayne & valeria are playing reverse bergen ... paulg: ... so 3!c would show a limit raise in hearts ... the same as most play 1!h-3!h sceptic: I think 3!C best bid as j2nt is 12+ and 4 support paulg: wayne should probably still investigate slam .... but he is less likely to bid it .. bzstvn: What advantage does it have over 3!h? paulg: it allows you to play 1!h-3!h as 0-5 points and 4+ hearts! ->BILmanager: i'll need 2 players after hand 6 sceptic: only reason I never bid 4nt was I am trying to be more disciplined with pard paulg: :) bzstvn: Is that not the sphere of 4!h? 1Valeria: :) sceptic: but val showed she was notinterested in slam BUT I still should have been ->bzstvn: typically 4!h shows 5 hearts paulg: yes sceptic: ok bzstvn: ty paulg: val was absolute minimum for 2NT ... so she tried to stop you bidding :) hali11: sh bid 2 nt??/ BILmanager->Kibitzers: Paul would like 2 volunteers to play hands 7 and 8 hali11: pl 1Valeria: ty sceptic: gl v bzstvn: Was the 2!s bid correct? ->bzstvn: probably not bzstvn: What do you think of 3!s? Isn't that better? ->bzstvn: yes, that's probably best ... but you wouldn't make :) drgarie: are notes of your session available for both hands and text .if so where ? jamathang->Kibitzers: i thought sceptic 2nd bid would be 3!s showing 11 pts, no? ->drgarie: http://www.pooh-corner.demon.co.uk/paul/bbo/ hali11: 1!S 2nt 3!H 4!S hali11: ? bzstvn: Bidding is one thing, making is another :-) ->bzstvn: yep BILmanager->Kibitzers: I need 1 more volunteer to pard with Hali11--- BILmanager: jillybean2 and Hali11 are your volunteers ->BILmanager: tx paulg: wayne, so we all think you are very lucky :) sceptic->Club: :) paulg: everyone else is rebidding 3!s on your hand ... which is the value bid paulg: everything is wrong, val has a minimum and you still make 2!s ... paulg: if val was slightly better you could easily miss game ... so you have to show your values ... paulg: ... even though xxx xxx in the majors is unattractive bzstvn: I don't think everyone opens in val's place, do they? sceptic: yes i c, I did not like my hand I have 3!C trx thats all paulg: sure, but you still only have 8 losers, enough for the 3-level sceptic: ok ->bzstvn: yes, this hand is definitely an opener paulg: as your have 4 diamonds, it's more likely than Val is short in diamonds than clubs bzstvn: It hasn't got enough honour tricks though... ->bzstvn: i guess it depends how you count, but you should open this paulg: ok paulg: actually val may well bid 4!s after 3!s ... paulg: but it is a game that most of the field will be in so probably an average score paulg: seems strange to say you should be in game when it is such a misfit :) 1Valeria: hi :) jillybean2->Club: hi :) ->hali11: care to sit sceptic: y i c what you mean though paulg: so the rest of the hands are unprepared ... hali11: hi all/p sceptic: hi all 1Valeria: hi paulg: which means that you may not do all the bidding :) paulg: welcome Clara and Kathryn hali11: ty jillybean2: hi thanks, paulg: as always, feel free to ask questions hali11: gl p jillybean2: typ ->1Valeria: 2/4 leads? bzstvn->Kibitzers: What about 2!s instead of 2nt? paulg->Kibitzers: i prefer 1!s-1NT-2!d-2!s-3!h-3nt 1Valeria: no it was for not make him think iam long in !C ->1Valeria: ok loubel: 2 S.pref. ?? ->loubel: yes hali11: wd p jillybean2: ty paulg: nicely done, well played 1Valeria: wd sceptic: wd paulg: however many of the kibs would not have rebid 2NT ... jillybean2: !c? paulg: we'd prefer a bit more values for this and would have given false preference to 2!s paulg: Clara is now strong enough to bid 3!h and show her shape 5-3-4-1 ... paulg: and now you can bid 3NT jillybean2: ok BILmanager: Paul I've got to take my Mother out Maureen will finsih up bzstvn: Can it mean 5-4-4-0, too? ->BILmanager: ok, thx for your help paulg: with 5-4-4-0 you would probably rebid 2!h paulg: the other alternative on that sequence is to bid 4!s ... paulg: but you got to a good spot and played it will, so no worries :) jillybean2: what values would you have for a 2nt bid there? ->jillybean2: 1!d guarantees at least 4 diamonds in their system jillybean2: ty ->jillybean2: normally 5 diamonds unless 4441 :) sceptic: ty v 1Valeria: glp ->hallway: we shall need another couple of volunteers after this :) sceptic: :(( 1Valeria: undo :)) paulg: attacking your short suit is not a great way to establish tricks :) sceptic: I will live with my mistakes paulg: ducking a spade would have been a better start ... jillybean2: wdo 1Valeria: wd sceptic: not so well done but thx :) paulg: the bidding was fine .... although the kibs may have missed some of the details ... paulg: so 1!d is normally 5+ diamonds unless 4441 I believe hallway: oh ok Mary said these were playing through I will wake up ! paulg: ... and 1NT showed 12-14 .... sceptic: 1!D is 4 or more jillybean2: in 2/1? sceptic: I hope ->jillybean2: the way that wayne/val play hallway->Kibitzers: !D Can I have two more volunteers please !D sceptic: or am I wrong as usual :)) paulg: what would you open with 4342 hand and 12 points? paulg: 4!s 3!h 4!d 2!c hallway->Kibitzers: !D don't be shy - this is good practice !D 1Valeria: 1!D sceptic: 1!d paulg: ok paulg: and you'd rebid ... after 1!d-1!h? hallway: how many more boards ? 1Valeria: 1!S ->hallway: at least 2 sceptic: 2!h bzstvn: 1!s loubel: 1NT sceptic: opps 1!s sceptic: 1!S I mean paulg: i recommend rebidding NT ... but it's more important that you agree :) 1Valeria: :) phew! bzstvn: so 1nt denied 4 !ss hallway->Kibitzers: !D 2 more boards to play - I need one more volunteer - your partner is lovely !D paulg: anyhow 1NT is the best spot ... OhSteveYes->Club: !c !d !h !s Intermediate players wanted for team match. Who's in? !s !h !d !c paulg: but it's not always easy to play when you have 3 aces ... paulg: the important thing is to try and setup tricks without creating additional losers paulg: here it's best to win the first trick with the !dA and duck a spade paulg: let the defence do some work ... paulg: if they lead hearts then you can duck two rounds and hope for 3-3 ... paulg: or they can lead diamonds and establish your suit ... Wjelk: can east reopen with 2!c ? paulg: ... or they can take the club finesse for you hallway: you might have to keep these 2 playing - can't get anyone thought I had one - now gone :-( paulg: yes west might reopen with 2!c ... but it's dangerous at this vulnerability ... paulg: and would cost at least -200 if doubled ->hallway: ok, np :) Wjelk: ty bastide: 2/24 !!! la beeeeeeeete hali11: ty p jillybean2: glp ->hali11: a little optimistic :) hali11: yes:-( ->sceptic: can't afford the !cJ then :) bzstvn->Kibitzers: I wouldn't have raised 2!s... sceptic: yes I was not so sure if that sent wrong message ->sceptic: sure, valeria is always likely to do the right thing whatever in this situation ->hali11: claim? sandy10842: claim?? lol jillybean2: ntp jillybean2: wdo paulg: unlucky that the cards were so poor that you went down two ... hali11: optimist sceptic: haha thx hali paulg: yes, the raise was a little jillybean2: I think I would have jumped to 4 with your !s..nice control :) paulg: although the spades are very good, the rest of the hand is poor and it is a minimum opener with 7 losers paulg: kathryn's 2!s raise was the best bid since the hand is likely to be worth only one bid paulg: we need another volunteer as Clara has been pulled into a team match paulg: first into the west sit please? jillybean2: hi p hallway: thank you 1Valeria: hi :) chandaa: hi all paulg: hi ash chandaa: hi chandaa: what's the title of today's lesson ? ->chandaa: these are now unprepared hands 1Valeria: glp paulg: nicely bid everyone isclou->Club: one more needed learning1 jillybean2: silly !h lead :( ->jillybean2: would have happened anyway :) jillybean2: wdo sceptic: ty 1Valeria: wdp paulg: as i said, a very nice controlled auction by all players sceptic: can I ask a question please paulg: sure jillybean2: thats what I find the hardest..passing :) ->jillybean2: lol sceptic: does my pass then subsequent bid of spades show I have clubs? paulg: no sceptic: ok sceptic: was not sure paulg: valeria's double asked you to bid a suit .... paulg: you bid spades ... showing spades :) sceptic: yes I was just curious if the pass means anything paulg: it means that you were not strong enough to bid 2!s over 2!c ... not that you held clubs chandaa: how abt X to show his !s ? sceptic: ok, it was just that when I told my wife I made a pass at my p she never believed me when I said it meant nothing ... sceptic: hahahaah paulg: best defence probably holds you to 8 tricks, but leading diamonds consistently is not easy bzstvn: Pass is a very meaningful bid in general, but not many players like it :-) paulg: lol paulg: a double by wayne of 2!c would have implied tolerance for both majors sceptic: full moon tonight I am feeling strange paulg: ... or tolerance for one major and diamonds .... chandaa: what do u mean by tolerance ? paulg: so the auction ... 1!d-(2!c)-Dbl-2!h-2!s must show diamond tolerance ... paulg: tolerance means secondary support ... paulg: so in that auction i've given ... paulg: the double implies support for both majors .... perhaps not 4-4 in both, perhaps 4-3 paulg: but when there is then a 2!s, it means that wayne did not have hearts, so he must have another suit and diamonds is all ... paulg: that is left paulg: so tolerance would imply perhaps Hxx and 10xx paulg: perhaps it is easier to say that 1!d-(2!c)-Dbl shows 2 places to play ->linsey: good evening! paulg: ok, last hand for tonight .... jillybean2: 2nt forcing' ->jillybean2: redouble shows a good hand! jillybean2: ty :) jillybean2: but everyone has a good hand here :) ->jillybean2: guess who doesn't :) jillybean2: I bet chandaa: glp jillybean2: typ ->sceptic: so, you weren't seriously considering 4!h I hope! sceptic: lol, no an x went through my mind ->sceptic: on the grounds you had no values in the suits you'd shown :) sceptic: it was a fleeting thought one I dismissed quickly loubel: west-1NT better? ->sceptic: i'm not a fan of your first double ... hand is balanced, you have 9 points of which 1 is in your long suits ... ->sceptic: i'd like 5-4 for the double, and working values :) sceptic: yes looking at it, I am not happy now, was looking at the suits rather than anything else ->loubel: 2!c is not too bad bzstvn: How would have 3!Hx scored? jillybean2: nice interference opps :) bzstvn: I mean by N-S? paulg: so I see that wayne has been watching meckwell over the weekend .... bidding on peanuts! jillybean2: it worked :) sceptic: hehe I was as well haha paulg: 3!h seems to have lots of losers :) 1Valeria: don't think i pay more than 1100 lol paulg: three spades, three hearts, three diamonds and a club ... sceptic: not the best bid I have made today :( paulg: on best defence 3 tricks ... -2300! 1Valeria: lol paulg: so a good point to finish ! jillybean2: the Rdbl shows 15+? paulg: thanks to wayne, valeria, kathryn and ash for their help 1Valeria: thank you Paul hallway: !D!D Thank you Paul - thx too to Wayne & Valeria for sharing their lesson time with us !D paulg: and to maureen and mary for assistance jillybean2: thank you paul chandaa: thank you paul jillybean2: and thanks wayne ->jillybean2: yes, shows a good hand bzstvn: It's not that much minus. Or is it? sceptic: ty Paul that was great fun as usual and very helpful ->bzstvn: must be close ... kyno40: thank you Paul ->sceptic: thx...