cul de sac: nothing like a good pint of real ale ->tem3: we never do that! tem3: well, then u should try the norwegian beer.. tem3: we usually by the danish one tem3: buy 1Valeria: Hi all paulg: hi valeria sceptic: I spent about 3 weeks in Helsinge commune working about 20 years ago, beer did not exactly endeer itself to me, I am a bitter man myself, I just need a beard and tweed jacket with ... sceptic: elbow pads and I could become president of camera lol 1Valeria: Are u drunk? paulg: how can you tell before he's bid? tem3: u should belive that the vikings (who probebly taught the english how to make proper beer) should leave the recipie for later generations..but nooo.. sceptic: I love my beer, just a shame british weather is not as good as our beer 1Valeria: I forsee them cul de sac: then you wud have tropical weather sceptic: I am sober as a judge lol BILmanager: but it's room temperature Wayne paulg: ok, so I guess that means you've been on the sherry ladybug12: I like mine Ice Cold TY!!!!!!!! BILmanager: British beer, I mean ladybug12: Yes I know paulg: Ice cold is the only way to drink American beer :) jackeen: Before things get going can you explain what the 2 means at top left of many profiles 1Valeria: have they beer in GB? jackeen: how good is 2? paulg: the numbers in people's profiles mean that they have won masterpoints in pay tourneys jackeen: thanks paulg: a "2" means that they have won at least 1 masterpoint ..... jackeen: "at least" ? paulg: 1-5 masterpoints .... http://bridgebase.lunarpages.com/~bridge2/forums/index.php?showtopic=4321 has more details 1Valeria: difficult to win less than 1? BILmanager: well it was supposed to be geof and culdesac but geof's not here so andres and rae I gues jackeen: Not so difficult lol ack_hh: see also readme.txt in your bbo folder c:\bridge base online\ paulg: ok, if the players would like to take their places .... ack_hh: hi all :) 1Valeria: hi :-) sceptic: hi tammie Val andreas Rae123: hi paulg: so tonight we are playing some hands that I played last week at the club ... sceptic: hi Paul and all jackeen: hi paulg: so the lesson texts have my results .... paulg: all hands are IMP scoring .... paulg: if anyone has any questions don't be afraid to ask for help ... Rae123: is it okay to lie by one pt..for my x ->Rae123: ? your double looks fine! Rae123: thanks Rae123: good luck p ack_hh: typ tem3: pairs ankara med niiie, board 4 tror jeg, 4hjX Rae123: gtp.wd o sceptic->Club: nto paulg: good try 1Valeria->Club: gto paulg: so a couple of points in the bidding and play .... jackeen->Club: wp d&o Rae123: would it make playing low on first club? paulg: firstly, wayne, what options did you have over the double ? ->Rae123: i will answer your question sceptic: I have a question, my bid was to make it hard for opps I would have bid reverse bergen with no x 1Valeria: I'd play small !H paulg: when I held the West hand I was able to bid 2NT over the double .... paulg: to show a good raise to 3!h sceptic: I could have bid reverse bergen, possibly 2nt but I did not like that option, I thought 4!H makes it hard for opps and stretches them if they bid over my 4!H paulg: as opposed to a preemptive raise paulg: the trouble with 4!h directly is that you are a bit too good ... sceptic: I usually bid 4!H with less but I did not see a slam with opps using a x paulg: with another ace Valeria is still not doubling ... paulg: and you could miss 300/500 penalty paulg: however, you did put a lot of pressure on andreas ... paulg: ... who did well to bid 4!s paulg: as 4!h is an easy make paulg: the play is interesting .... paulg: a diamond lead, or heart lead and diamond switch, should always defeat the contract paulg: but my partner also led a club .... paulg: declarer has to worry whether this is singleton or doubleton .... paulg: ... as it is unlikely to be !cKxx when hearts have been bid & supported paulg: given the heart situation, it does seem best to play the !cA .... paulg: and my oppo did the same thing paulg: but it is more interesting, for the defence, if you play the !cQ ... paulg: .... presumably West will win and return a club .... paulg: now, when Valeria wins the !sA, she must underlead the hearts to Wayne's !hK to get a club ruff paulg: this is easier on the bidding .. but still a tough play to male paulg: make ack_hh: and male :)) Rae123: lol ->1Valeria: does 2!h show 4? 1Valeria: yes 1Valeria: I'd bid support DBL with 3 sceptic: typ 1Valeria: glp ->1Valeria: yes, i expected you to play that 1Valeria: :-) BILmanager: ladybug 12 and vblprince with play bds 3/4 paulg->Kibitzers: yes, Valeria's 2!h showed 4-card support Schoko: nach vblprince: is way to show 5 card majors as well as 4 card majors paulg: so this hand was about judgement .... paulg: wayne has a lot of points ... but 9 losers ... BILmanager->Kibitzers: !D Clicking Control R before responding to a private message means it will stay private !D paulg: so he and Val did well to stay low ... sceptic->Club: I would have passed even if angreas had not bid sceptic: I would have passed even if Andreas had not bid paulg: you would normally only make 9 tricks in hearts, so 2!h is a good spot ... jdelang: what about the lead Paul paulg: The trump lead cost a trick .... not so important against 2!h ... paulg: but against 4!h then I'm sure Andreas would have led the !dA ... ack_hh: yesss :) paulg: Actually I'd probably lead the !dA against any contract to take a look at dummy .... paulg: :) paulg: when I played this we were playing 4 card majors ... so East opened 1!h ... ack_hh: i was afraid it might be too late then to switch to trumps paulg: I raised to 2!h and now North bid 3!d .... paulg: 3!d was passed round to my West hand .... and now I could show that I had points & losers paulg: by doubling ... so we got them down 2 doubled paulg: North's 3!d was ill advised ... pass would have been better Rae123: i thought S bid exceptionally well :)) paulg: me too! Coch Draig: mind if i watch? paulg: so thanks to Andreas and Tami ... ack_hh: thx pauk sceptic: ty :)) ack_hh: paul ->Coch Draig: no problem at all 1Valeria: ty:_) Coch Draig: ty vblprince: hi 1Valeria: hi :-) ladybug12: Hi ALl gl sceptic: hi andy hi private BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d If you would like to play in the next round, please message me privately - We'll change after 2 hands !d vblprince: oh my vblprince: sry all sceptic: nt andy paulg: no need to apologise ... normal result ;) paulg: just to show how unfair bridge can be ... my only defence is this the hand we played ... paulg: 4!s is a reasonable game at IMPs ... so I'd expect most to be in it paulg: despite the low point count ... Rae123: would you use a tempering bid like 2!d instead of direct raise to 3!s? sceptic: so I missed a trick on defence paulg: I feel the South hand is particularly difficult to evaluate paulg: but 3!s is probably right with an 8-loser hand paulg: Andy, with a 7-loser hand, should probably pass technically .... paulg: but at IMPs I'd bid 4!s since it is impossible to judge whether the heart singleton is valuable or not mamo2500: I don't know if I can ask questions, but is it right to jump raise with only 3 trumps? ->mamo2500: you can ask questions publicly after the hand ... so it would be fine paulg: i've been asked whether it's correct to jump to 3!s with only 3 trumps .... paulg: well, it's certainly fine in SAYC as this only promises 3 spades ... paulg: In 2/1 most folks would bid a forcing 1NT first paulg: ... but, of course, SAYC does not have a forcing 1NT so you have to jump paulg: when I played the hand declarer misplayed it to go 3 down loubel: always thought needed 4 :) ->loubel: nope, 3 is fine in sayc BILmanager: cul de sac and jdelang are the next pair ->BILmanager: thx vblprince: glp ladybug12: ty sceptic: ntopps ladybug12->Club: ty vblprince->Club: ntp 1Valeria->Club: nto ladybug12: should have continued clbs paulg: unlucky .... perhaps trying to play diamonds earlier and ruffing in dummy paulg: with dummy short in entries it will be difficult to establish the clubs ... paulg: so getting another entry by ruffing the diamond loser will save two tricks ladybug12: yes ladybug12: ty for games paulg: so the 2!s bid caused East-West to miss their heart fit ... paulg: Andy's raise to 3!s was something I did not expect ... but created a very tough problem for Valeria ... vblprince: was mistake to do so ?? cjamber->Club: one at cjamber 1Valeria: NO PROBLEM AS dbL AT 2!s IS PENALTY paulg: no, 3!s was fine vblprince: ty paulg: i guess that's telling you wayne :) 1Valeria: sy caps blocked cjamber->Club: make that 2 sceptic: yes I can take a hint :( paulg: i'm surprised that double was penalty ... many play it as general values paulg: but if DBL is penalty, then wayne has an awkward bid ... sceptic: it is a new one on me anyway I am sure we have agreement no x at two level is penalties 1Valeria: we play Leb paulg: Bidding 3!h, even showing a weak hand via Lebensohl, is not clear .... OliverC: Key to the hand is the Dbl by west, who will surely have exactly 3 clubs for that, so even running the J!C from hand and ducking whatever happens ensures discards for the 2 losing ... OliverC: diamonds because communication with dummy ensured 1Valeria: 3!H forcing 1Valeria: 2NT and 3!H invitational sceptic: I did not want to play leb as that would make the issue worse I am not convinced leb is good here paulg: if partner does not have a heart fit then things will may not go well 1Valeria: yes paulg: pass is probably the prudent action :) paulg: at the table, because we play 4 card majors, we bid to 3!h and left the opposition in 3!s ... paulg: although 4!h does make they may well have bid a making 4!s OliverC: LOL, true enough, but if they use up the only guaranteed entry to dummy by crossing to the K!C, almost certain to fail on any distribution, so actually leading the K!S not as silly ... OliverC: as it appears (Stiff Q!S, or spades 2-2) paulg: so thanks to Andy and ladybug12 vblprince: ty ladybug12: ty ->OliverC: yes, but they could lead !dA and other 1Valeria: ty:) paulg: so cul de sac and jdelang are the next culprits sceptic: ty all cul de sac->Club: we play pīs profile with upside down paulg: ... sorry volunteers 1Valeria: hi :-) cul de sac: hi jdelang: hi paulg->Kibitzers: So I bet they will bid 6!s --- remember to keep bets to the kibs and NOT to the table BILmanager->Kibitzers: !d If you would like to play in the final round, please message me privately - We'll change at Board 7 !d sceptic->Kibitzers: this hand sucks OliverC: yes paulg: so in an auction like this, where the opps are probably not going to bid, it helps if you explain your bids even when natural 1Valeria: i haven't understood sceptic: thinking ->1Valeria: i just mean explain bids to all of us ... even when not alerted ... if not, I will prompt :) 1Valeria: ok vblprince: i do not like their auction ->vblprince: no :) sceptic: I may have screwed up here but it was fun trying johntaylor->Kibitzers: 5!s?? paulg->Kibitzers: the 5!s bid denied the spade queen johntaylor->Kibitzers: thought i9t promised paulg->Kibitzers: but the 7!c bid is stranger 1Valeria: glp OliverC: talk about "who says crime doesn't pay" LOL sceptic: geezus 2!C has no clubs ->OliverC: 5 or 7 hand! Tage2->Kibitzers: maybe he thought 2!c showed 5 !c ->sceptic: is it not drury? OliverC: indeed johntaylor: 5!s promises trump q in mt notes johntaylor: sorry paulg->Kibitzers: in RKCB, the standard response to the queen enquiry is to bid the trump suit missing the queen, and something else with it sceptic: geezus I claim prize for luckiest bugger alive ladybug12->Club: lol for sure 1Valeria->Club: bravo :-)))) ladybug12: well done paulg: so, if you were an expert, I would say that you bid this better than us ..... sceptic: not sure I deserve a well done for that ladybug12: lol jdelang: wd paulg: since you realised that this was a hand where you would make 7!s or 5!s ... but not 6!s JMcCrea3->Kibitzers: ive been in worse slams 8) paulg: actually 6!s is an okay slam ..... it needs spades 2-2 IF they find a heart lead ... Rae123: 7!c is still a mysterey paulg: if they do not find a heart lead then you can cope with a trump loser ... sceptic: my problem started when I bid 2nt I was unsure how to proceed after 2!C bid (which I misunderstood) paulg: clearly, a trump loser in 7!s would be bad .... OliverC->Kibitzers: 7!C giving a choice of slams. Don't forget the initial 2!C bid paulg: 2!c was a form of drury ... showing 4-card support here ... paulg: so we should spend a moment on passed hand bidding .... ack_hh: did wayne know that? :) paulg: what bids would either people make with the East hand .... Tage2: 2!d paulg: anyone else? ack_hh: 4!s glenlyon->Club: 3 !s bzstvn: 3!s sceptic: ok I forgot we play drury I also did not realise p passed, I screwed this up from start to finish paulg: even so, i don't think this is a good hand for drury .. but it does depend on your options vblprince: u r dangerous paulg: so I'd bid 3!d with the East hand .... paulg: a FIT jump by a passed hand .... nzakosek: how does wayne show his strength? paulg: showing a good 5-card !d suit and good support for partner 1Valeria: we don't play that but I think we should :-) ok Wayne? paulg: this really improves wayne's hand ... and he can now use keycard paulg: if you play some form of drury, then the 3-level responses are not needed as bergen ... 1Valeria: no in fact is empty paulg: so it only makes sense for the bids to show support in some form, and fit jump is the most popular paulg: Also, what does a 2NT response mean ... after all you cannot have a Jacoby 2NT when you've passed 1Valeria: is 5-5 minors sceptic: I cant believe I missed her pass, I am so dumb sometimes loubel: do you like drury? 1Valeria: is 5-5 minors paulg: something to discuss .... ->loubel: well I do play it normally, so I guess yes bzstvn: Is Jacoby 2NT opener's rebid? paulg: of course, the problem with Drury is remembering it loubel: right! OliverC: Amen, Brother :) ->bzstvn: no, it is a first response - 1!s-2NT ... or here Pass-1!s-2NT Rae123: lol paulg: at my age .. I've started reducing the number of conventions to save my brain ... 1Valeria: hi again sceptic: wb p ladybug12: wb paulg: so I'm tending to conventions that come up frequently or are unusual and I'll always remember 1Valeria: ty :-) paulg: i do play drury though :) Reinhard M->Club: we need 1 next door , please BILmanager->Kibitzers: !D!D I still need 2 volunteers for the final set !D!D cul de sac: thinking ->cul de sac: 5!d shows 1 ace remmelt->Club: we need 2 @ITIEN's Tage2->Kibitzers: Paul, why is'nt Johannes showing his five !hs paulg->Kibitzers: well, he has a tough bid over 2!s .. but we shall discuss this later :) Tage2: ty jdelang: gl p cul de sac: ty ->cul de sac: care to claim the rest? 1Valeria: wdo jdelang: could you lose the !c partner paulg: i thought I'd give North-South some cards for a change jdelang: thanks alot ladybug12: that was nice of you lol paulg: so bidding after a strong 2!c is never discussed very much ... BILmanager: a genial host you are---marko1 and nzackosek are next up paulg: but this hand is a good illustration of some key principles paulg: firstly ... opening 2!c consumes a lot of space ... so you need to preserve space as much as possible paulg: so after 2!c-2!d a simple bid is best UNLESS you have a strong single-suited hand jdelang: my $ !s bid wasn't good then paulg: which sets the trump suit paulg: so 2!s is a good start .... paulg: ... but yes, 4!s consumes too much room without giving information paulg: 2!s is forcing to game ... so I would only jump to 4!s if I had a really bad hand as responder paulg: i think you should be chosing between 3!s and 3!h jdelang: thought about the last option paulg: yes, after 2!s you now have a nice hand ... good support, an ace, and a fair 5-card suit paulg: i think this is the weakest 5-card suit that I would consider bidding .... paulg: it is unlikely partner would be interested in hearing about !hJxxxx so with that I would bid 3!s paulg: but !hQ9xxx is just about good enough ... but it is close bwd1: does it promise at least 5 card suit? ->bwd1: yes paulg: any suit bid does promise a 5-card suit remmelt->Club: 2 seats open @ITIEN please join bwd1: ty:) paulg: the only time I'd bid !hJxxxx is when I did not have spade support 1Marko: would u EVER show xxxxx major? :-) paulg: however, let us suppose you do not bid 3!h but made a simple raise to 3!s ->1Marko: only without support for partner x xxxxx Axxx Kxx paulg: what should South bid now? Rae123: 4nt? jdelang: 4 NT vblprince->Club: 4c jackeen: 4d ladybug12: 4H paulg: any more choices? ack_hh: 4!h johntaylor: 4!C jdelang: 4 !c paulg: when one hand is really strong ... cuebidding is not always the best option ... paulg: here, South needs help in the heart suit for slams to be good ... paulg: either shortage or length ... but not !hxxx paulg: so i'd bid a natural, forcing, 4!h paulg: now the North hand is HUGE ..... spade support, heart support, and an ace ... paulg: so North can cuebid 5!c ... which must show all these things in one bid .... paulg: and now South can bid 7!s .... no need for Keycard! paulg: actually South could use Wayne's 7!c bid to ask North to select the grand slam for a perfect auction!!! Rae123: :-) paulg: the problem with 2!c is that it comes up rarely .... 1Marko: so 5!c is always 1-round control, never singleton/ K? paulg: ... and I find it difficult to count all those points ... paulg: i think it should be 1st round paulg: ... and we all get nervous with strong hands .... 1Marko: how can opener be sure of !h fit with 5!c cuebid? paulg: so just try to remember that you are in a game forcing auction ... so don't jump unless it really shows something jdelang: Ok paulg: because North would not make a grand try without it paulg: ok, thanks to Thomas and Johannes ... paulg: and we have 2 more hands tonight ... sceptic: ty :) 1Marko: so cuebidding 5!c rather than 4nt by responder is always grand slam try in that auction? jdelang: ty 1Valeria: ty :9 1Valeria: :) paulg: yes, in this auction 1Valeria: hi :) 1Marko: hi Nic, Val & Wayne sceptic: hi marko hi nicholas sceptic->Club: wdo 1Marko: tyo paulg: well done ... sceptic: wdo 1Marko: thx but we got a game lol ladybug12: with 11 points I might have bid 3 sp? paulg: yes, always tough to bid game after a strong 1NT opener ... bwd1: would you open 1st with 6 clubs? paulg: here you have a perfect fit ... vblprince: i would do it with 9pts paulg: and I think it is a 50:50 decision whether to raise 2!s JKJ: why not 2 !D using capp? paulg: you must remember that partner is bidding 2!s primarily to disrupt things .... it is not constructive paulg: so I prefer to be able to bid 2!s with quite weak hands ... ladybug12: true paulg: and with nick's hand I'd be hoping partner can make it! paulg: Personally with 6-4 major hands I always show the 6-card suit .... rather than a bid that shows both paulg: Especially with a hand that Marko has ... with a void paulg: it is far more difficult to force a hand with six trumps .... paulg: so I want to play in a 6-1 fit rather than 4-3 heart fit ->nzakosek: double would probably show a takeout double of 1!s ->nzakosek: that's not a hint, just an option ->1Marko: double shows a takeout of 1!s nzakosek: thx paulg: so double shows a takeout double of 1!s nzakosek: would you open 1 !c on the last hand? ->nzakosek: yes, but I wouldn't advise anyone else too :) 1Valeria: glp ->sceptic: so what did 3!c show? sceptic: clubs ->sceptic: points? sceptic: weak I should have passed 1Valeria: typ ->nzakosek: good lead Rae123: why no x of 3nt with 16 pts in one hand and 6 in the other..surely they can't make 3nt ->Rae123: tough to know how bad the contract is ... ->Rae123: south has not shown 16 points, just an opening bid sceptic: two major screw ups :( ->Rae123: and they do not have a good fit .. it's just tough when people (opps) make silly bids sometimes ->1Valeria: cash the !h first next time for possible squeeze Tage2->Club: need 2 experts @ chandaa :D paulg: so 3NT was not the best bid of this session :) paulg: it is interesting to consider what to bid after nick's double of 1NT ladybug12: for sure paulg: with a minimum hand I'd suggest a simple pass ... as North is about to bid paulg: in fact Marko is likely to bid 2!c :))) 1Marko: hehe paulg: And now Valeria get's the red double card out 1Marko: my longest & strongest roflmao paulg: Nick can now rescue to 2!d which wayne will probably double .... sceptic: :)) paulg: in fact, it's not even clear that Nick should rescue ... paulg: quite possible they will play 2!c-X paulg: i might try this hand again some time :) ladybug12: interesting for sure paulg: i'd have probably led the !dA from Nick's hand ... in case someone has a singleton honour .... paulg: however his !d10 lead worked out very well bzstvn: The A!d would work out just as well :-) paulg: so that's it for tonight ... thanks to Wayne, Valeria and our volunteers .. and to Mary for organising us all! BILmanager: !D!D Paul-thank you so much-You make learning fun! And Wayne, thanks for sharing your lesson !D!D 1Valeria: Thank you so much paulg: I'm playing a Pivot Teams on Sunday ..... bwd1: thank you Paul enjoyed 1Marko: tyvm Paul, was fun paulg: so I'll bring along some hands that I've played with random partners ladybug12: Yes ty Paul sceptic: thx paul and thx all paulg: to see if you can beat what we did! boeh->Club: thx vblprince: ty paul sceptic: thx for that paul was fun ->vblprince: ty ->sceptic: so much to watch out for! Rae123->Club: need one here please 1Valeria: Bye all ->sceptic: the advantage/disadvantage of my sessions is that anything can come up :) paulg: bye all ->BILmanager: thanks BILmanager: a pleasure---always